tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC August 15, 2013 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
harassed or arrested for who they are innately, because of who they are. there has to be some sort of accommodation. >> i'm with george good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight on "all in" as the smoke clears from yesterday's deadly crackdown in egypt, the horrible human toll is revealed and the world decides how to react. we'll go back live to cairo in just a moment. also tonight, shocking video posted to the web gives a disturbing glimpse into the current situation for gays living in russia. as the outrage grows and olympics draw near, is there any way this doesn't become a full-blown firestorm? that plus my special documentary on climate change will be airing in this hour tomorrow night. tonight we'll give you a sneak preview of the politics of power.
that's coming up. we begin with the gruesome aftermath of the worst military crackdown in egypt since its president mohamed morsi was removed six weeks ago by the egyptian military. we'll bring you president obama's reaction momentarily. the official death toll according to egypt's own ministry of health now stands at a staggering 638. it has mounted precipitously since yesterday's broadcast when it stood at 235. by 3:20 a.m. eastern time, it was raised to 327. by 4:35 a.m., it was raised, again, to 421 dead. at 6:43 a.m., it was raised to 525 dead with over 3,700 injured. today, 3:45 p.m. eastern time, the death toll was raised yet again to 638. the dominant image of the day, wrapped body in mosques. funerals began today, another reminder as if egypt needed one that the purported political process of moving from an outright military takeover to inclusive elections seem risk vanishing outright.
the cleanup of ravaged camps began as did month-long state of emergency marshal law. the muslim brotherhood supporters urged people to protest in strict defiance. in giza, southwest of cairo, protesters torched a local government building with molotov cocktails. there were attacks on a dozen different cities suspected to be carried out by muslim brotherhood supporters. the international reaction barely keeping up with the pace of events on the ground. ecuadorian president recalled its ambassador. denmark cut off funds from egypt. other officials in the european union called for suspension of aid. the turkish prime minister. the u.n. security council held an emergency meeting today in egypt. president obama addressed the crisis directly, saying he'd cancel the joint military exercise with the egyptian army
scheduled to start next month. >> the united states strongly condemns the steps that have been taken by egypt's interim government and security forces. we deplore violence against civilians. while we want to sustain our relationship with egypt, our traditional cooperation can not be continue as usual when civilians are being killed in the streets and rights are being rolled back. as a result, this morning we notified the egyptian government that we are canceling our biannual joint military exercise which was scheduled for next month. going forward, i've asked my national security team to assess the implications of the actions taken by the interim government and further steps that we may take as necessary. >> joining me on the phone from cairo now, sharif abdel kouddous. sharif, it was staggering today to watch the death toll unfold.
i couldn't help but imagine what the aftermath looked and felt like in egypt today. >> well, cairo is a normally bustling city of 19 million people that is infamous for its noise and traffic, and in the morning, the aftermath was a very different city. it was quiet. very few people on the streets. and it felt like everyone was staying at home. i went in the morning to a mosque which was about not far from the site of the main protest that was stormed yesterday, and this was really transformed into a house with schools of corpses laid out on the floor wrapped in bloody white shrouds. i counted at least 234 bodies inside. there was family members crouched near them. many of them were weeping. many were scanning lists of
names of the dead, trying to find their loved ones, plastered on the mosque walls. it was a typically hot summer day in cairo and people were carrying in blocks of ice to place on the corpses to try to stop them from decaying, but the smell of death is really heavy, and there was fans placed next to the body and people spraying air freshener. really difficult scenes to witness, and people had complained that they weren't getting the proper burial permits to take their loved ones and bury them. so that was the scene at this mosque, and it's unclear if this latest death toll from the health ministry, the 638 number, includes the more than 230 that were at this mosque. we expect the death toll to continue to rise, and many of the bodies that i saw, family members would uncover to show us, were charred and burned beyond recognition.
they say these were the body the that were inside the mosque and hospital that were burned to the ground when police and security forces stormed the -- >> sharif, my question for you, the images we are seeing, we're playing right on air, images of shrouded bodies. these images have been ubiquitous in the western media. are those are the images in egypt? i've read reports because state-controlled media is not showing that, there's not a sense inside egypt of just the scope of the carnage there is outside egypt. >> well, i think that's true to some extent. it really depends on what channel you're watching. if you're watching a lot of the private tv channels that are sympathetic to the military, opposed to the muslim brotherhood, as well as state television, there's very few
images of the victims of yesterday's massacre showing on the screens, and this is endemic to the media polarization that has only grown wider over these past six weeks. we've seen in the run-up to the raids of the sit-ins, very shrill media coverage, painting all of the muslim brotherhood and all of the morsi protesters as terrorists and violent that need to be forcibly dispersed and this is continuing now. if you watch private tv, you don't really get a sense of the scale of the killing that took place. if you watch a channel like al jazeera, though, which is more sympathetic to the muslim brotherhood and to morsi, then you do get a sense, and there's a lot of coverage of those kinds of scenes, a lot of coverage of protests and who are supportive of morsi still taking to the streets in opposition. so it's a very divided media landscape that reflects a very divided society. >> we're seeing a polarization there that continues.
sharif abdel kouddous, from democracy now. on the note that sharif just said, the president responded to president obama. "egypt faces terrorism including attacks on court, churches and police stations. it's the responsibility of the government to protect citizens in the nation. the presidency fears obama's statements are not based on facts and encourages violence and flourishing of armed groups that could complicate the country's roadmap and transition to democracy." joining me, former state department spokesman, p.j. crowley. and samer shehata, associate professor of middle eastern politics at university of oklahoma. in the wake of the president's statement today which seemed largely to not move the needle in either direction, i just watched tons of cable news punditizing about this was not strong enough, "x," "y" and "z."
and i have to say, i watch this unfold and watch the commentary on the presidents and it seems to me embedded is an assumption the u.s. can, if it's strong enough or makes the right decisions, control the outcomes and shame them in any meaningful way in egypt. i'm not convinced that's at all possible at the moment. >> i think, chris, there are two dimensions to that. inside of egypt, yes, you're right. the united states has a weak hand, has limited influence. we're dealing with decisions made in egypt. we're dealing with mistakes that are being made in egypt. i think there is a broader concern about the credibility of the united states across the region, because obviously egypt is a very consequential country. if egypt advances constructively, that has ripple effects. if egypt descends into chaos, that will have dire consequences for the region. i do think it's important in terms of the credibility and
influence that the united states has not just in egypt, but on a wider scale. >> in terms of credibility, here's what's basically happened. the white house basically didn't call the military takeover a coup. they thought they talk to the general who's now running egypt. we're explicit, do not resort to this kind of violence in clearing the protesters and they did. the question become, the last card in the hand of the americans is to stop the $1.3 billion in military aid. do you think that would be a smart or even effective thing for the u.s. to do? >> well, i think that the money should not be going to the egyptian military to begin with. i think the vast majority of egyptians don't benefit from the $1.3 million and it mostly goes for outdated hardware that egyptian military doesn't need. but you point out the paradox, we have leverage, $1.3 million we give to the egyptian military every year. if we stop giving that money, we're going to lose our leverage. that's the dilemma the obama administration faces. >> the leverage doesn't amount to much in the context the gulf states pledged between $12
billion and $15 billion, p.j. they've already indicated quite publicly, i believe, if the u.s. were to suspend aid, they would rush in to fill the vacuum. it seems to me that all this question about is the u.s. negotiating the crisis, that's a marginal question in terms of the full scope of what we are seeing go toward horribly, possibly, an outright sectarian civil strife in the country. >> well, there's going to be significant strife. i don't know that it will blossom into a full-scale civil war. that's a possible, but i do think that it has dire consequences for egypt in multiple dimensions. obviously the longer it takes egypt to re-stabilize, the dilemma is egypt fails to address its larger economic crisis, which is imperative of getting egypt to advance in any constructive direction because the economy was tenuous even during negotiations with the morsi government. i think the other dimension that the united states has difficulty with is obviously the goal is inclusive democracy, return to civilian rule. that necessarily means that the
muslim brotherhood -- >> is brought back into a political process, but they've now watched the 17-year-old daughter of their leader be killed by state forces in one of the bloodiest crashes. the question to you, samer, then, is what does the muslim brotherhood do next? that i think is what all eyes are upon. what is the reaction here? >> the muslim brotherhood faced repression in the fast. in the 1950s and '60s, the regime imprisoned many of them and detained others. many had to flee the country. they are unlikely as a group, and already declared a willingness to resort to violence. now, that doesn't mean there aren't going to be fringe elements that see no hope other than violence against the state. they're going to say that we participated in the political
process. we participated in it and look what happened. as an organization, they're not going to resort to violence. i think they're likely to, if allowed to, focus on the charitable services and the welfare provision that they have and try to slowly reintegrate into the political process if they are allowed. >> that is a big question. the former state department spokesman p.j. crowley and samer shehata. fox news is covering the food stamp program with headlines like this. unabashed surfer receiving food stamps to buy sushi and avoid work. they are perpetuating lies about a program that has one of the lowest rates of fraud in the u.s. i'll explain coming up.
at a fox news documentary which was just about the most dishonest depiction of supposed food stamp fraud that you can imagine. that's up next. la's known definitely for its traffic, congestion, for it's smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the busses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution to the earth. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment.
so i'm buying my groceries and i notice that everybody is giving -- i mean, they had huge, huge baskets. i realize it's the first of the month. i'm looking over and there's a couple beside me. this guy was built like a brick house. i mean, he had muscles all over him. he was in a little tank top and pair of shorts and really nice
nike shoes and she was standing there and she was all in shape and she looked like they just came from a fitness program. i mean, she was in the spandex and, i mean, you know, she was -- they were both physically fit. and they go up in front of me and they pay with that card. that's fraud. absolute 100% is fraud. >> that was congressman, a republican from oklahoma, telling a town hall about food stamp fraud about a food store in virginia. this couple was in great shape, what do they need food stamps for? he stopped short of saying they possess calves the size of cantaloupes. the food stamp program, s.n.a.p., is a long running and currently intensifying mythology on the right. most recently house republicans have been waging what amounts to
an all-out war on food stamps turning their institutional attention to fighting the scourge of hungry people getting food. last month they took the unprecedented step of stripping the nutritional assistance program from the farm bill altogether and are now considering $40 billion in cuts to s.n.a.p. over the next decade. in some ways republican lawmakers are simply following the lead of the right-wing noise machine which has decided to focus its efforts on turning food stamp recipients into the next welfare queens. last week fox ran an hour-long special called "the great food stamp binge" dedicated solely to misrepresenting a program that feeds millions of hungry americans. >> all paid for by our wonderful tax dollars. >> we are just a hair away from large-scale hunger malnutrition and starvation in america. >> you really believe that? >> no question whatsoever. >> you're just laughing. >> absolutely preposterous.
>> you and your volunteers stop and explain food stamps to just about every person on the street. >> yes. >> it could be construed as recruitment. >> the 29-year-old has chosen the life of a beach bum in this seaside paradise. jason has for the last couple years floated from place to place, staying with family, pals and girls he's dated. >> a nice day today, though, huh? >> he gets by with a little help from his friends, and you. the taxpayer. >> it just a question of money and benefits, then you can diminish their incentive to work and achieve and to rise above difficult circumstances. i think there's a real moral question here. >> food stamps, as a special program, is one of the most obvious ways in which the government has reached into american neighborhoods and says, it's okay to be dependent. >> thank you, taxpayers.
thanks. >> do you feel guilty at all about doing this? >> [ bleep ] no. >> now, let me take a second to cleanse your palette from what you just watched with some actual facts about the food stamp program. one of those is that fraud in the food stamps program is at an all-time low. less than 2% of s.n.a.p. benefits two to households that do not meet the program's requirements. contrary to what fox news would have you believe, the program is actually underused. listen to this. a quarter of all the people eligible for food stamps don't sign up. and less than 40% of seniors who are eligible signed up in 2010. knowing those facts, let's look at who is receiving help from the program. according to the center on budge and policy priorities, roughly 91% of s.n.a.p. benefits go to households below the poverty line which is about $23,000 for a family of 4. $23,000. and 55% of s.n.a.p. benefits go to households half below the poverty line.
the people republicans characterize as moochers and fraudsters live in areas that overwhelmingly support republicans. today "bloomberg" reported among the 254 counties where food stamp recipients doubled between 2007 and 2011, republican mitt romney won 213 of them in last year's presidential election. joining me now is msnbc contributor goldie taylor, also a contributor to the grio.com. goldie, given that last statistic which i thought was interesting, i wonder whether you think this political attack is effective or whether the program is now so broadly used in america because of the grinding misery of the great recession and the low wages that republicans actually risk alienating people who have come to know the program and to feel warmly or fondly about it. >> chris, i really think there's something to that. this really is a double-edged sword. so on the one hand, you are harkening back to the archeotypical welfare mother,
eight children, overweight, gets by on food stamps and other things all at our expense, so you're looking to demonize a sector of society who's out there trying to survive, cope and make it among the least of these. on the other hand, you don't know who is your neighborhood qualifies for s.n.a.p. >> that's right. >> you don't know if your next door neighbor is paying for those groceries with the s.n.a.p. program because they lost their job two months ago and haven't been able to put food on the table. and so i think the face of poverty in this country is changing. 1 in 4 children in this country is living in poverty and at risk of not eating today. and then you certainly have to understand these are more than black and brown people and these are more than just the persistently poor. these are formerly middle class
people who lost their home from the last bust. >> it has grown in the great recession. >> the other part of this is 12 million to 13 million people who qualify do not receive s.n.a.p. for one of a couple of reasons. one, the hurdle to get into the program is so high by the time you finish with identification and income checks and household size checks and all those other things, navigating the system, itself, is very challenging. on the other part of this thing, there is the stigma of having received this kind of assistance. so there are people, by the way, who don't even know that they qualify. those are three major reasons why people aren't receiving s.n.a.p. today. >> we should also make a point of saying the average benefit is somewhere in the neighborhood of $4 to $5 a day which is to say absolutely no one is getting rich off this. msnbc -- >> i can tell you that my -- >> please. >> my family of three received $280 a month in food stamps. >> msnbc contributor goldie taylor, always a pleasure. thank you. >> thank you. every day that passes i'm
more convinced the attacks on lgbt russians is going to absolutely blow up as an issue as we approach the games. this is just starting, folks. there are new developments today to tell you about coming up. i don't make any decisions about who to hire without going to angie's list first. with angie's list, i know who to call, and i know the results will be fantastic! find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, she's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. [ claira ] after the deliveries, i was okay. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. [ groans ] all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. [ crashing ] [ male announcer ] when your favorite food starts a fight,
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that video is one of the more disturbing things that i have seen in a very long time. and it's just one of many like it posted to the web depicting gay men in russia being lured on the internet into meeting up in person only to be accosted, harassed, insulted, humiliated and beaten for the cameras. it is a sickening illustration of what is happening in modern day russia. the situation is dire for the country's lgbt citizens. the upcoming winter olympic games in sochi put a spotlight on the crisis there much like the beijing games drew attention to human rights violations in china. right now the world is being given a small preview of the absolute total political firestorm that awaits. athletes from all over the globe are currently right now gathered
in moscow for the world athletic championships. spate of new russian laws including one that bans so-called gay propaganda prompted some athletes to publicly express their support for the lgbt community. high jumper emma green of sweden showed solidarity by painting her nails the color of the rainbow flag telling reporters "i usually do my nails in something that feels good for me and it's a simple way of showing what i think. it felt right." that seemingly small act was met with intense and very public criticism from one of russia's best known athletes. elena, a 31-year-old pole vaulter, condemned the gesture by referring to another teammate as disrespectful. >> we russians are maybe different from european people, other people from different lands. we have our law which everyone have to respect. >> named an official international olympic committee ambassador of the youth olympic games gave her explanation of the country's attitude toward lgbt citizens.
>> it's my opinion, also, if we allow to promote and, you know, do all this stuff on the street, we're very afraid about our nations because we consider ourself like a normal standard to people. we just live boys with women, women with boys and everything must be fine here. it comes from the history. so we never had any problems. i mean, we don't want to have it in the future. >> that prompted a response from nick simmons who became the first athlete to criticize the policy on prussian soil. he had more to say. "it blows my mind such a young, well-traveled, well-educated woman would be behind the times. she said normal standard people in russia in guess what. a lot of these people with russian citizenship are normal, standard homosexuals. they deserve rights, too. joining me, author of the fantastic new book, "very recently history."
an entirely factual account of a year in a large city. and julia ioffe, former moscow-based correspondent for the "new yorker" and senior editor at the "new republic." we're moving from this being a future issue to it being a right now issue. put into context the comments today that we heard. >> russia is where america was 30, 40, 50 years ago. most people in russia think, about 74% of russians think that homosexuality is either a disease that needs to be treated, a result of poor upbringing or result of seduction. the misconceptions we saw in the west a generation or two ago, we're seeing in russia now. it's also layered with a fear of prison culture, homosexual sex is seen as humiliating, as rape by another man. it's a sign of weakness. so it's -- and now on top of all of that, it's kind of covered with this anti-western patina.
>> you heard it with her. she was talking about essentially this is a foreign invasion, that, like, the russian body is pure, it has been penetrated by these foreign corrupt antibodies. choire, when you look at that video, i have to say, i watched those videos today. there's something deeply, deeply dark and evil happening here. obviously there are probably videos like that in countries around the world, frankly. the combination of what's happening officially from the state. just watching that as a gay man, what is your reaction? >> it's really terrible and really amplified by people using youtube and other sharing methods that we used to get gay bashed in private. it used to happen just to us. to use this broadcast as an act of terror, too, is really disgusting. >> do you feel, julia, like this is some -- what was shocking to me, i found these videos because of a link in a great story you did for the "new republic" about the lives of gay and lesbian folks in russia. it felt to me like, yes, this is an individual, but there's some
kind of environment that means this is okay. >> that's right. if you talk to gay activists in russia and just regular gay people in russia, you see that things have gotten a lot worse because of the law and the push to get the law through. there's been a spike in violence against gay people. so whereas before you saw people kind of reacting with shrugs to people coming out to them as gay, some people would be disowned or kicked out of their homes, but you saw these islands of tolerance in this sea of misunderstanding and hate. those islands are getting smaller and smaller. in part because there's clearly -- there's been a signal sent that sometimes if you look at these videos, the police do show up and they arrest the gay people who are being bashed in these videos. they don't go after the guys who are pouring urine on their heads. >> choire, the gay rights community we're seeing mobilize
about this. this is really being spotlighted. this is going to be spotlighted going into the games. what do you hope to see happen with that campaign and as we move toward the olympics? >> we're 175 days out from olympics. a lot of people would like us to move it from russia. that is not going to happen. there's a lot of money behind it. what we need to do is go in with the national olympics committee have already september 7th to submit their names of accredited media. what every organization should do is send everyone gay in there. >> people should be there and using this opportunity to report. >> choire sicha of "very recent history." it really blew my mind. you have to pick it up. julia ioffe from the "new republic." thank you both. we'll be right back with #click3. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love.
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here on this time slot. first i want to share the three awesomest things on internet. the smithsonian announcing today the discovery of a new species in north america. the first such discovery in 35 years. it isn't some bug. it's a mammal. never before identified. today the amazing image of the mammal is released. wait, no, wrong picture. guys, that's not it. i'm being told we have the correct video. no. no. that's not accurate, either. that is a guy showering with a raccoon. do we have a -- okay. here we go. behold. an animal so squeaky -- sneaky, one lived at the national zoo for a year but it was mistaken for its sister species. he's an adorable cross between a kitty and teddy bear. don't try to touch him or he'll claw your freaking eyes out. second awesomest thing on the internet, recommended from the pastry plate.
since its inception, people have been having fun with twitter's six-second video app call vine. we at "all in" used vine. no, no, excuse me, i'm told from the control room this is video of a raccoon stealing cat food. there's will sasso and everyone else. who else can take a mundane bag of citrus fruit, turn it into a rollicking good time for the whole family? if you notice in all his such, there's an edit, a cutaway. this is from vine user jay ray. this is jay ray's kid. no obvious cutaways. jay ray tosses laundry, a small person in a superman shirt pops up out of nowhere and disappears into the phantom zone or under the bed. the kid is gone. there's no way to know how he did it. you've been served, will sasso. third awesomest thing on the internet today, destiny fulfilled in the city of spokane, washington. a report from alex rosier introduces us to a man who found something awesome at the corner of 3rd and maple. >> that's when i realize there's
something happening that is going to literally change my life. it was there, man, and it was like the heavens opened. the sky sang. i picked it up. i've never been the same since. >> joshua found something you just don't see every day. >> i have found one of the greatest swords ever made in history. >> he found a four-foot metal sword on the side of the road. >> that's right. a 4-foot metal sword. just like the legendary, this found one man destined to have it. he wants to find the rightful owner. he put an ad on craigslist, "found, a sword." >> he said he will not turn down the reward of knightly caliber. apparently he will also not turn down the chance to show you a possible pose or two. >> you're going to want to balance the weight of the blade.
it's like you're batting literally. >> here's a snapshot of success in swords. >> why does he keep swaying swords? for now the discovery is sitting at channel 6 to be claimed. bad idea. we can tell you a television studio is no place for swords. >> the nice thing about the practice -- oh! oh, that hurt. oh, that hurt big-time. >> he was okay. don't worry. find all the links for tonight's #click3 on our website, allinwithchris.com. we'll be right back. [ tires screech ] [ beeping ] ♪ [ male announcer ] we don't just certify our pre-owned vehicles. we inspect, analyze and recondition each one, until it's nothing short of a genuine certified pre-owned... mercedes-benz for the next new owner. ♪ hurry in to your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for 1.99% financing during our certified pre-owned sales event through september 3rd.
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what's in your wallet? tomorrow night during this hour, we'll be airing a brand new documentary on climate change called "the politics of power." here's a sneak preview. >> in the last few years we have begun to wean ourselves off foreign oil. since 2005, oil imports are down from 60% to less than 45% of total consumption. part of the reason, a technological breakthrough that makes it possible to extract vast amounts of oil, shale rock, right in our own backyard. >> up until relatively recently, it was untappable, impossible to get oil out of this rock. a few people had a vision for if we can get it out, we'll find a way. american ingenuity came to bear. >> the process begins by drilling down thousands of feet into the tough shale layer. the drill line goes vertical, and then horizontal through the
rock. sometimes as far as a mile. then under high-pressure water, chemicals and sand are pumped into the line forcing fractures in the rock, releasing the oil which is then pumped to the surface. it's genius technology is termed hydraulic fracturing or more commonly fracking and has led to a modern day oil rush. but there's something else locked up in the shale, natural gas. and natural gas is only half as much co 2coal, so it's a cleaner fossil fuel. in over a decade, u.s. production of shale gas has increased 12 times. meanwhile, u.s. carbon emissions are at their lowest level since 1994. >> we've had a pretty significant reduction on our carbon dioxide emissions from fuel burning and it's because of the boom in natural gas which is cheaper than coal, so companies running power plants say, hey, why are we burning coal when we can burn natural gas? >> some people see natural gas as a so-called bridge fuel to
get us where we need to two, toward renewable sources of energy such as sun, wind and water. >> that implies that we have time to walk the bridge. that implies that climate change is not yet upon us, but it is upon us and we have to worry about it today. >> there's no solution other than stopping burning coal and gas and oil and doing it fast. we're past the point where we're going to stop global warming. i mean, we already melted the arctic, okay? >> what really hurts us and makes us vulnerable to the climate is not the average. it's the extremes. and it's the extremes that change a lot when the average just changes a little. so even if earth only warms about 5 degrees fahrenheit which is the average prediction for this century, we're going to see sea level rising because of the warming by an amount of 2, 3, 4 feet. on a typical east coast beach, for instance, that takes away 200, 300, 400 feet of beach
horizontally inland. >> by now, hundreds of millions of people around the world, this is an incredible immediate thing. the national oceanic and atmospheric administration said in january in a report that we already raised the temperature enough that the ability of humans to work outdoors has been cut 10% and it will be 30% by mid-century. that's about as basic as it gets. the transition to the kind of world that works very everyone will be greatly aided by the transition to a world of spread out energy, a world that doesn't depend on the koch brothers and exons and everybody else to bring them their energy, that instead is set up so you an can get it from the sun. if you want to understand why those guys hay that world so much, just remind yourself from their point of view what the problem with the sun is. you can't meter the damn thing. >> "politics of power" airs tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc.
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my new documentary "the politics of power" set to air tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc, investigates the denialism in the fossil fuel industry and in the republican party. standing in the way of any meaningful action on climate change in this country. we've talked before on this show about how driven the republican base is right now by the denial that climate change is real. >> this war of climate change unfortunately is not doing this nation any good. >> can i follow up on that?
>> every time we exhale, we exhale carbon dioxide. >> just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud. >> the question is whether manmade activity is what's contributing most to it, and i understand that people say there's a significant scientific consensus on that issue, but i've actually seen reasonable debate on that principle. >> the omnipresent threat of a tea party challenge keeps elected republicans cowed on the issue and as a result nothing gets done in congress. we'll be joined in a moment by one republican trying to change that. bob served for six terms, and he went down in a landslide to trey gowdy. a key to his downfall, widely believed, to saying out loud climate change is a real think. >> unfortunately, i think a clear majority of the republican conference does not accept human causation and climate change. >> what happens to republicans and conservatives who take an opposing view? >> people look at you like you've grown an extra head or something. you're definitely seen as some kind of an odd ball and and perhaps a heretic.
climate change is real and let's do something about it. >> bob inglis made it his mission to change his party's chorus. dedicated to convincing conservatives that climate change is real that we should, you know, do something about it. he is taking to barn storming the country advocating to conservatives a tax on carbon emissions. joining me now, former congressman bob inglas, republican from south carolina, executive director of the energy and enterprise initiative. i want to play you a little bit of rush limbaugh on the topic. we don't play a lot of rush limbaugh on this show because you kind of know what you're getting. it does perfectly give you a sense of exactly what anyone in the republican matter who might be inclined to come to the scientific consensus on this issue, what they're up against. take a listen. >> in my humble opinion, folks, if you believe in god, intellectually you cannot believe in manmade global warming.
you must be either agnostic or atheistic to believe that man controls something he can't create. >> thoughts on that, bob? >> well, you know, there's -- the example of nuclear weapons and how actually -- >> right. >> -- if mankind hadn't have excised its responsibility, we couldn't really leave it all to god's sovereignty. you have to balance those two. man's responsibility and god's sovereignty. we could have, in fact, during the cold war and could still today destroy the earth by nuclear weapons, so it sort solve undercuts rush's argument there.
clearly human kind is responsible, and as creation stewards, we need to exercise that responsible when it comes to climate change. >> okay. here's my big question. you're doing this thing, trying to talk to conservatives about the issue. i feel like i'm not seeing the needle move. i don't mean that to be an indictment of your efforts which i find personally quite persuasive. i believe in them. do you feel like you're making progress? >> you know, i've been in a couple of challenge races. one i was successful, one i was unsuccessful. when you're a challenger, you can feel momentum long before the pundits start seeing the momentum. that's how i feel in this situation. i can feel some momentum.
for example, the college republicans in wisconsin just recently passed a resolution saying let's act, let's do something about climate change. they said, you know, wisconsin is the birthplace of the republican party, good ideas come from here, so the environmental right starts here now. that's a data point that helps me. at one is a colleague of mine and i from "r" street won a debate. when conservatives heard for an hour and a half discussions of these topics of a revenue central government shrinking carbon tax, they said yes. >> that's interest you say that. you're focusing on the solution, revenue neutral carbon tax. the idea is you put a price on carbon, don't expand the size of government one cent, right? and what's interesting is we talked about this the other night. part of what is leading to denialism on the right is the sense that the solutions would have to be things liberals like
myself love and, therefore, the problem can't exist. do you think if you focus on this solution that will be more amenable to conservatives, you can get them out of that thinking? >> yeah. i think so. i think if we can present this as pre enterprise which is what it is, the only role of the government would be being the cop on the meet that says all cost in on all the fuels. full accountability which is a key conservative concept. if we can get that point across and say, which would you rather be taxing, income or pollution? make the swap. if you do that swap, that tax swap, you can also elimination some clean air act regulations. it would become redundant when you price carbon. it's a government shrinking revenue-neutral carbon tax. the problem, chris, though, is that there's -- the folks on the left that are talking different things -- >> that's what you wanted to ask you, actually, very quickly. should i shut up about this?
am i making it worse by talking about it? >> well, if you could help us clear the wreckage on the left hand side of the road, it would be good. my party, conservatives, want to drive on the right hand side of the road. we're distracted in the destination ahead by the wreck of cap and trade, the wreck of a carbon revenue positive carbon tax. we have to get rid of the wreckage then drive to the destination. >> i think that is shockingly naive. we're going to have to go back at it again. bob inglas. thanks. the "rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> good evening, chris. thank you very, very much. in november 1981 the united states invaded egypt by air. 850 paratroopers from the 82nd airborne in north carolina, look at that, they flew from north carolina to egypt and dropped out of the sky all at once. >> 14 hours after taking off from north carolina, american paratroopers landed in the egyptian desert. it was the biggest task so far for the rapid deployment force. 850 members of the 82nd airborne, and tons of weapons and equipment were over the drop site precisely on time and on the ground six minutes later. there were four injuries. the most serious aro